Note: The following is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the meeting, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
Mindy Cohn 00:00
Hello Los Angeles and welcome to another episode of Mondays with Mindy I am joined as always by my co host and co Producer Christian Brescia. Hi everybody. Welcome back. Today we are delighted to have a conversation with my friend Natasha Gregson Wagner. Natasha is an actress, author and producer born and raised in Los Angeles by her mother, the actress Natalie Wood and her father's you heard me correctly, Richard Gregson and Robert Wagner. She has two fabulous daddies. I'm sure we'll talk about that at some point. Or maybe not. You may have seen her in such films as another day in paradise high fidelity, two girls and a guy and David Lynch's last highway, as well as the television shows Ally McBeal house MD and Chicago hope Yeah, not a bad resume. That's right. In 2016, she co authored the coffee table book Natalie Wood reflections on the legendary life. This year, Simon and Schuster published her memoir more than love An Intimate Portrait of my mother, Natalie Wood. Simultaneously, she co produced the HBO documentary About her mother's life Natalie Wood what remains behind Christian after so much controversy about her mother's accidental drowning and Catalina this film just beautifully reminds us what a powerhouse in trailblazing career her mom had and finally allows her family for the first time to candidly open up and share their private and painful feelings about Natalie Woods passing the falsehoods that followed and kept shadowing their lives and how they're actively keeping her real legacy alive. Natasha lives in Los Angeles in Michigan with her husband after Barry Watson and their daughter clover Clementine That kid is so delicious. I'm so looking forward to gabbing with Natasha today. Awesome. Ladies and gentlemen. We are excited to welcome to the show Natasha Gregson Wagner
Christian Brescia 01:47
Mindy Cohn 01:49
cute. Ditto. Ditto. You guys you guys safe and sound there?
Natasha Wagner 01:53
Yes, we are. Yes we I am up in northern Michigan and it is very calm. I've just been on the lake with my dogs. No which is why I am kind of scummy right now. Anyway yes awesome so we start each episode Christian and I came kind of came up with these 20 questions that we put in my little trusty Jonathan Adler secrets canister okay and I pick you know like you know random questions okay and do a little get to know you we just go go from there all right, that sounds fun. Okay question number one what's your guilty pleasure? Guilty pleasure Um, I don't know I feel like I haven't Well, I haven't watched that much TV lately. Oh, you are normal. And maybe a guilty pleasure would be ice cream. That's a guilty pleasure. Yeah. Guilty pleasure, particularly flavor. I'd say soft serve ice cream. Ah, I guess my China farm vanilla swirl saucer. Oh my gosh. When I'm on the farm in upstate New York, they have a place we go every single Yeah, so good. Okay, definitely a guilty pleasure. Yes. Um, how do you get inspired? And who inspires you? Oh my gosh, um, well I think I get inspired just by whatever is around me. I mean right now I'm up in by the lake and near the woods. So when I walk in the morning I feel really inspired just by hearing like the birds and you know, I saw a little bunny rabbit running earlier and so I would say nature inspires me definitely
Mindy Cohn 03:33
nice and personal, a person. I mean,
Natasha Wagner 03:36
I would have to say my daughter clover is an inspiration just her freedom and her her kind of comfortable way with who she is. is inspiring to me. that inspires me right now. Thank you.
Mindy Cohn 03:50
I needed that machine this time.
Natasha Wagner 03:54
Okay, we're diving deep there. When was the last time you cried? Oh, probably Probably recently, maybe a few days ago, Clover was crying. My husband's in LA right now. And so we're apart from him for a couple of weeks. And so my daughter is really missing him. And sometimes when she feels like crying or emotional than I, I get that too, but I try not to because you're not supposed to be doing that so much. So yeah, probably just a couple of days ago. I miss him. Yeah,
Mindy Cohn 04:29
there's no suppose Yeah, there's your perfect, what's the best advice you've been given and who gave it
Natasha Wagner 04:35
my dad hasn't has always said to me, my daddy Wagner be will have the strength of the week. And Ooh, I I think about that a lot. Especially with the toxic media and the toxic president and so much toxicity I think about how weak people are can pull you down if you don't put it down right there. God, Natasha, that is I just felt that button and profound. Yeah, I know. He's always said that to me ever since I was like a teenager. He's always said that. Okay, now I'm dying of curiosity. You might have to ask him where he heard that or saw that I had, like, macular. I never heard that before. I know. Yeah, I know. I do need to ask him. I think it was an actor that that gave him that. But I don't know who so I do need to ask him. You're right. I'm, I'm just curious because that's really powerful. Yeah, it's kind of amazing. Okay, last question. For this stuff. What assumptions do people make about you that are wrong?
Oh, you know, I try. I try really hard not to get into that thing where I predict what other people think about me. But I would say that my default is to be overly nice because I'm always worried people are going to think that because I grew up the way I did or something that I'm going to be you know have an attitude so I definitely I i diffused with kindness or nice overnight overly niceness being overly amenable which I don't need to be all the time. I know. I agree.
Mindy Cohn 06:23
You are one of the nicest human beings I know. Well, thank you.
I mean, I'm not really always that nice. I definitely default to nice it's my default.
Mindy Cohn 06:35
Yeah, no, I get it. I really get it being a people pleaser. I really identify with that. So you know, I don't know if you if we've talked at length about this. But the reason I Christian Christian and I kind of decided to do this was that during this stay at home experience that still keeps on giving. The one thing that I was really like yearning for and missing was being around my creative people because that's how I get inspired. Other creatives have any and every kind to inspire me and to not be around it and just be, it was challenging. So he said, Why don't we talk to some of them? So you're exactly so
friends before this and then you kind of came up with this. Okay, all right. Okay.
Mindy Cohn 07:22
Yeah. Oh, yeah. for 20 years we'll be friends. Okay. Yeah. And, and Christians and amazing producer and software engineering, you know, this stuff. It's like, oh, gosh, it is crack. And I am, you know, 90 years old or Amish, whichever one you decide to, technically, but anyway, so I thought of you immediately, not only because you're a fellow actress, but also because there is this deep dive that you did. The last I'm gonna say like four or five years where you decided to write this memoir and also co produce and really Helm I know you had an amazing director and he did a magnificent job. You found this documentary, this HBO documentary about your mom. And it wasn't just her story in her legacy, but you know, it was a creative project, isn't it? Yes,
I say hi real quick.
Mindy Cohn 08:22
Um, so anyway, what what made you finally decide to write the memoir? And then I mean, I don't want to say simultaneously but almost simultaneously, I
started the project. Yeah. Well, the memoir took obviously a lot longer than the documentary because I was had been writing and for about three years like off and on and stuff. And then I think I just started to feel safer in my own skin and out in the world, probably because I have Berry and clover and getting ready to turn 50 all the emotional work I've done on myself and I just, I started to I started to feel like when I spoke about my life I liked the way it felt to talk honestly about what I had been through and and who I am and how I feel about things. And then I it was like the universe, I think really wanted me to do it because then I met Laurent and we, you know, pitch the doc to HBO? And they said yes, and then everything sort of, you know, it's that thing where like, you make a decision and then the doors kind of open without you having to try very hard to open them, which is not very often the case. Mm hmm. And so so so it was just I think of a process of maturation really, yeah, my own well and and all maturation
Mindy Cohn 09:50
well, and I have to say, you know, the memoir, which I'm holding up right now, for those who are just listening is such an amazing read, and building it really close because again, I'm technically online. There is much more personal in that it's not so much about your mom's legacy as about living with your mom and then living without her yeah and your life and your trajectory as a creative as a person as a daughter as a mother, all that stuff and the film is much more like I said in the intro really reminding people you know, just the legacy of your mom and not to concentrate so much on her you know, departing but rather this breath of work and career somehow seems to keep getting if not forgotten, not talked about as much as all the other salacious space,
right. Yeah, uh huh. Yeah, for sure. So
Mindy Cohn 10:40
men, so memoir first, you are extremely vulnerable in the memoir about your I just want to talk to you as a as a fellow actor, your decision, your decision to leave college and do a deep dive into acting and we share an acting coach in Larry moss. Yeah, who if you're gonna deep dive, why not? Do you want to hang on? so much? And that and that work came at a very decent clip for you? Uh huh. Um, and so I wanted to ask you about talking about that because you really don't for the most part in your day to day life identify as an actor. You and I have a conversation. Yeah, arguments about it.
Yeah, you are. Yeah. I don't feel that I am anymore at all. And after I, I do feel that maybe one day I'll go back to act, but I don't feel the poll at all these days. And why is that? I think mostly because I don't want to be on a set. I don't like being on sets. I find it I feel trapped on a set. And when I was doing the audio for my book, in my closet up here, we had to make myself a little studio because I couldn't go and do it in a studio. Because everything was closed. I really enjoyed that process. And so what I how I feel is that I love acting and emoting and feeling and characters and all that stuff, but I prefer it when I'm in a dark room where nobody can see me I don't have to wear makeup sort of like today where I didn't realize I was on camera. Right and, and so that feels liberating but sitting in the makeup chair and getting my makeup done and then waiting around to do all of that part of the acting process. I just right now I can't I can't take that part of it. I'd rather be with my daughter. I'd rather you know, I just if I didn't have clover till I was 41 I just want to be around for like all the details like the minutia. The really boring parts of motherhood like I really like those parts and if I was on a set, I wouldn't be missing all of those parts. So it's just a choice that I'm making. And you know, I'm married to an actor. So I'm always running his lines with him and I'm always doing his auditions with him and when he's working all that, so it's not that I don't I mean use the tools Yeah, I definitely I think that I live like an actor like I feel like an actor but I don't I feel like the emotions of an actor like I was saying to clover the other day we were walking through the forest and and she definitely has inherited the performance gene. And I said, you know, there's this amazing quote, I think it's Dell Adler. I can't remember who said it. I don't think it is so Adler with somebody, it's in Larry's book. So something like you need when you're on stage, you need to listen like the animals in the forest. And saying that to clover, because when we walk through the forest, you know, we hear the birds and we hear the wrestling and we see a deer Or a bunny or even a fox sometimes. And or a snake, you know a non poisonous snake. And so I felt like that would resonate for her because a she's a child so she does listen like that. Yeah. And be net. She's hearing all the animals in the forest and then see she is interested in performing. So like I'm always thinking about acting stuff.
Mindy Cohn 14:23
Yeah. Have you gotten bitten by the producer bug having produced this documentary? No. Y'all have no, no.
I mean, this was a labor of love for me to produce the documentary. Yes. And I and I, I consider myself more with the with the documentary. I was the hostess of it, you know, like I yeah, I got the people to come to the party. I invited them to the party and I tried to make them feel and you interviewed, interviewed some of them and lawrato hit a lot of them. But I think I tried to make everybody feel you know safe where they could have their own experience you know, I think if anything I'm more have been bitten by the writer's bug that's what I lay my god or I prefer I like to be alone in my room and right into my in my office up here and when I go on walks like I've I'm I'm I have an idea for something else so I think about that when I'm when I'm walking and I don't know I'm in sort of like a in like, even though I'm a Libra and I'm very social and I love my friends and all that stuff. I've been in a very solitary place
Mindy Cohn 15:40
well I I've noticed that the choice to obviously I understood your embarrassed choice to go you know to Michigan when this happened but I was you are insanely social creature and have been your whole life. So I was gonna ask you like, how you doing? Yeah, apparently driving,
I think well luckily up here. We have This small community of friends that we've had for a while, so they were up here too. So we were able, we have been able to social distance with them. But like I was talking to my best friend, Amanda yesterday, and I said, like, I'm so sorry, I haven't called you lately. I just, I want to call you every day. But then I don't want to call you because I just don't even have anything to say right now. You know,
Mindy Cohn 16:22
like some I think a lot of us. Yeah. are in that same position. I totally identify with that. Yeah, yeah, I'm better than you anticipated. No. Oh, yeah. I mean,
especially now that the weather has, well, you know, we got some chicks. And we planted a vegetable garden. And we may stay up here. I don't know how long we'll be here. But I'm happy up here. But I'm certainly protected from a lot of the drama that's going on in the world, you know, because we're in this tiny little town. But yeah, it's an intense time. It's a painful time. It's a bad time. There's so much loss everywhere. And I think even If you haven't experienced it directly from COVID It's impossible not to just feel it, you know, you like feel the collective grief that is
Mindy Cohn 17:10
all around grief and uncertainty. I have to say that's been the bug that has bitten most of me and my friends tushies is done that level of gin, just on the cellular level of uncertainty is anxiety provoking, and salutely Yeah,
yeah. And I'm with you having like a flexible mind, you know, where you can pivot where you have to be able to pivot quickly. I mean, that I feel like that muscle is a muscle that we haven't used in a really long time. I mean, even for us, like when we first got up here and not a lot of stores were open. I was like, Okay, so in my pantry, I have a lot of beans and and lots of noodles and you know, whatever. make for dinner tonight in corn so I made a lot of corn fritters and you know nothing that exciting and yeah it just pivoting and not Yeah, there's no room it feels for entitlement or free you know you have to just yeah you just have to deal with it and get on with your life and and you can't really like it can't really cry about it. I mean you can cry about it but you can't whine about it. Yeah,
Mindy Cohn 18:34
drink right especially being in the positions were in Yeah, yeah. I'm not to be tangential Trudy but I do want to go back to the documentary because what I found the most touching and regulatory was that really for the first time I felt you and your dad and your family people who you chose to have talked talked about Things that you guys hadn't talked about before. And I'm wondering how hard that was for you to do or how you just made the decision that you're going to, you're going to tackle tackle this once and for all. Well, yes,
I had made the decision. I was going to tackle it once and for all definitely. And, you know, we had never really spoken about the, you know, the controversy of that night or whatever. And with my stepdad with my daddy Wagner, I, you know, I I love him so much, and I'm very protective of him. So I wanted him to feel safe. Yes, but I was asking him to step outside of his comfort zone. No. And I was, you know, the producer and the interviewer but also his daughter and lost the same thing he lost that night in a way you know, important person to us. So it was definitely a balancing act and and I feel like Laurent did a really great job in the editing room of like cutting out a lot of my awkwardness? Because I think that I definitely, you know, was like, just dancing around a little or Yeah,
being overly, you know, awkward is really the word
by a shot interview over two days, well, it
Mindy Cohn 20:24
looked like and again, it's just appearances and, and but you know, it looked like not only he was comfortable in doing that, not that he was like, Oh, I'm so ready to do this, right. But it also was out there looked and appeared to be a level of if not release more of Yeah, I'm at the age now. Yeah, where? And I'm with my daughter. So here I go, you know, and I just felt relief for him. Definitely. I wish he could have given himself a little earlier and yet, I don't know if anyone would have treated it the way that you did. So, again, bravo is what I'm trying to say. The long version, right?
And my dad is somebody naturally who's very much like, this is who I am. This is my story. This is what I think. I don't give a lot of about what you think about me. I am who I am. And so now he is that person, but certainly doing it with me, and especially because he walked me through so much of my heartbreak, you know? Mm hmm. It was more meaningful, I think on that level for him. Yeah.
Mindy Cohn 21:29
Well, and I do have to say, you've talked about serendipity and the timing of it and just like ready to do it. I mean, obviously with your father being so ill and to see him and Julia like it was, it was lovely to me. It was very full circle, not just regarding your mom, but your dad as well. was able to say and have a little piece from his and I just feel like what a love letter you gave him too. I feel I felt that way watching it. You know?
Yes. I You know, that was the last time I saw my dad when when we did that interview and I knew pretty much that it would be the last time and he was very proud that he was able to, you know, be well well enough in in that moment to talk to speak. And I was just talking to my stepmom yesterday about him because it's almost going to be a year it'll be a year on August 21 can't believe it. And she was saying it because he had been so sick for like three years and she was really his caretaker and, and she was saying that now she's starting to remember when he wasn't the good stuff. Yeah, the good Yes, she's actually grieving in a much more intense way than she had when he first died. And it was almost like a relief that he was set free from that make
Mindy Cohn 22:48
sense. So that makes sense. And for those of our listeners who have been living under our rock, people normally when you say to daddy's, you know at some gate Couple that's, you know, fabulous children. But you were one of these very lucky people in the late 70s, early 80s, who had two daddies that are not gay, but these dynamic, successful, gorgeous men. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and just hats off against your mother and two tour Have you called daddy Wagner that, you know the three of you really did? You know, it's very unusual. Natasha, what would you say to our listeners with that, that you want to say about that relationship?
Um, I want to say because I think a lot about that relationship. I am a step parent, we co parent, my my husband, Barry and I co parent. I have two step sons. We don't co parent with each other. We parent together. Our parent with their mom, and it's hard. It's really hard and my dad's and my mom and my dad's. They made it look really easy. I wish I had it that easy. After my mom died, You know, my two dads, they just whatever issues they had with each other. I never knew about those issues, they kept those Bravo. And so they are both really magnanimous when I got married the first time they both walked me down the aisle, you know, there's never been any of that petty jealousy. They've always been so respectful of each other and, and just real examples of how to be a good human, you know, and a good parent.
Mindy Cohn 24:31
Well, and I have to say you've done such a beautiful job in the book. Yes, it's coming from your 1112 and 13 year old self, but those first few years without your mom that dance that your two dads did, yeah, I just think you've written about it so beautifully, where there was not not only not competition, but when disagreement I mean really deciding to put, you know, you guys first the kids first Yeah, live and how you should live and what you should have and what you Shouldn't have and I just think that really is, um, you've just done so beautifully describing that in the book I really got such a such a taste of that very. Yeah. Bravo. Thanks. Picking up the book if you don't mind, I'll give you guys a chance to take a breath. We are actually going to take this time to mention that the book more than love An Intimate Portrait of my mother Natalie Wood by Natasha arsp very special guest is our very special honorary sponsor of today's podcast is an emotionally powerful tale of a daughter coming to terms with her grief, as well as an unforgettable portrait of her famous mother and advantage Hollywood, it's available for purchase on Amazon. We will add the link on Mondays with Mindy calm while you're there, check out of course while you're there, check out the podcast. It's available on all major podcast networks. If you want to see us on YouTube, you can click the link there as well. watch the show if you like what you're seeing, give us a thumbs up, tap the little bell and subscribe please leave us your comments. We're always reading them. We like hearing from everybody. Like I said we will have more show notes on our Guest Natasha available on the website. So if you want to connect more with her if you want to follow along a little bit more about her as well as connect to her books, and hopefully some of the future books she might be writing will be tacking those on there as well. Oh my gosh, yes. Thank you, Christian. You have
a good voice question. Oh, thank you.
Yeah, you didn't think you'd be answer today? Did you? Happy I from one sponsor to the other.
Mindy Cohn 26:28
I love it. I love it. Um, so about this writing? Is it is it more books? Is it a screenplay? Is it what do you what are you writing?
Well, I haven't I haven't started. I have an idea for a play actually. Okay, that I love. So that's my idea. And then also a little bit of a short story. I you know, I'm not it's all just like
Mindy Cohn 26:57
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that ruminating phase, I just know that I enjoy the process. And so I want to do more of it. But I'm giving myself this summer to not work really. I mean, right now that the book in the documentary are coming out in the UK in July and then in Oh, and then in France in September, so I'm doing like a lot of European press or whatever, but, but that's, that's all I'm doing. So I'm not like, I'm not pressuring myself to be working on a new project just yet.
Mindy Cohn 27:32
Well, yes. Because I was just gonna say this is a relatively new
as far as it is. Yeah. And also, I think with with the uncertainty back to that word of school, I may be teaching clover again in the fall. That will be that is turned out to be a full time job. Because no kidding. When they're that young, they can imagine them in front of the the zooms and they you know, they need the interactive
Mindy Cohn 28:00
With a human in the room so Would you ever consider or have you ever given thought about writing into children's books now that you're kind of growing this little person?
I Yes, I have. I love that question. And it's funny my my godfather, who wrote the boys in the band, he passed away on March 7, unexpectedly.
Mindy Cohn 28:21
Such a loss. He was he was so incredible.
Natasha, great. I know he was. And so he left his, you know, all of his everything to me. And so I got Oh my word. I've been getting lots of his treasures. And after Kay Thompson died, he had written a lot of the elouise books for Hillary night. And so clover and I were reading the one one of the ones that he kind of filled in, and I was thinking about a children's book as I was reading that because it always makes me feel close to my heart and of course, who doesn't want to read about Eloise? Because she's like, right? So awesome. I was explaining Eloise to clover a little, a little more and then I yeah, I was starting to think about a children's book because we're always telling stories about the woods and who lives in the woods and what's going on in the woods and, you know,
Mindy Cohn 29:15
feeding her imagination and having her.
Yeah. imagination, clover, you better get off that iPad and go into the woods right now. Use your imagination. Yes, yes. To
Mindy Cohn 29:31
You know, the other area of creativity that many people don't know about you. I'm so glad you wrote a little bit about it. But really, it's you and I have talked about it. Because I just think your taste level is par excellence is interior designing. Well, you know, you don't have a you know, your shingle hung out on a storefront. You know, you you really how you create how you express yourself creatively. So talk a little about how what That does for you. And
I just love making spaces creating spaces and and while Barry's been away actually I've been getting some stuff done up here that that he wouldn't want me to be doing if he was here because that means the painters are in the house and the woodworkers are in that. So like he left and I quickly got all those people to come over to do all those things that I've been waiting to do. And then I just arranged all the bookshelves yesterday.
Mindy Cohn 30:29
I don't know.
I feel like I'm a Libra. So I am ruled by Venus. And I definitely like beauty but I'm also I have lots of Virgo in me. So I like order. And I feel like when I create those spaces it gives me like, I'm able to breathe kind of and then like then I can read a book or then I can get to work but if my space isn't as I want it to be. I can't do the other stuff, right?
Mindy Cohn 30:58
Yeah. We'll get to talked about in the book how your first you know, grown up space your little apartment on tahini. Yeah, definitely your first you know, toe dip into the world of interior design and you've kind of never stopped.
And I definitely yes, I don't know. I just I love it. I feel like I
Mindy Cohn 31:17
you're good at it though. I mean, it's one thing to love it but you're really really good at it. I think
I really I can see when things need to be balanced or whatever. Like I love to go to my friend's house and organize their bookshelves you know, with like, not just books but like, chocolate. weed. I don't know what it is. It's just yeah, that it's got to be it's and Barry and I have that. He's a Taurus. He's ruled by Venus. And so we'll follow it. Yes, yes, you You of course you know that. And so we can talk about design or talk about houses then aesthetics, and it's like a point.
Mindy Cohn 31:52
But it also it seems it seems that it stemmed from you. I mean, for me, I absolutely got it from my father. That was, you know, he said interest and so I know that in you describing the house, but also not just her but her her friends homes and your friends homes, that that would
Yeah, that may be I got it from going to these amazing houses. It's like you're inspired by that. Yeah. And my mom actually had an adult it was she was called Natalie Wood interiors and she had by Kirino and she decorated some of her friends
Mindy Cohn 32:29
were shocked to
read about that, which is funny, but her taste was much more opulent than mine. Mine is more pared down I think, you know, but she was constantly remote redecorating you know, new new fabric and new wallpaper and I mean, now if I lived in the house that I lived in growing up, I would I would be in, I would be having an anxiety attack all day long, the Patreon owler and the wicker furniture And you know, it's like, oh my god that was but it was just what it was like
Mindy Cohn 33:04
I was just gonna say that the times. Exactly. I'm gonna Thank you You are and we'll continue oh my gosh, so delicious and I
adore you so much. Thanks, guys. Thank you. I'm sorry that I didn't realize that we were on camera and I didn't put on any makeup or do my hair. It's okay
Mindy Cohn 33:21
i as my mom calls this I am in one of my Mohawk and schmatta is so well You
Mindy Cohn 33:31
We want to say thank you to our very special guest, Natasha Gregson Wagner for joining us today. Like he said, If you want to learn more about her go to Monday's with many.com. We'll have all the show notes up there and some links so you can find out more. We'll say goodbye to clover to
see you guys soon.
Mindy Cohn 33:46
Bye, guys. Thank you. So that was
Mindy Cohn 33:51
Natasha. Yes. Pretty interesting story. Yeah, her story in general is just fascinating, but, you know, to hear how she's moving through the world with all the I think it was really interesting to her. Yeah, she's one of my few friends who we grew up together in Beverly Hills and had that that kind of 90210 lifestyle real that she's got just got such a great head on her shoulders and is not a slave to money, property and prestige. Like a lot of our peers will call them friends but people we grew up with have become Yeah, so that's always you could tell she was kind of like salt of the earth. I was like,
Mindy Cohn 34:25
very adds up. Yeah, she was pretty interesting. You know, we've been hearing pretty consistently over this first season that people are at least a lot of our guests are developing a greater sense of their creative self as they're becoming quote unquote more comfortable in their own skin. She's now set it it's been said, How many times prior to this one that I I had to have like an epiphany for myself where, oh, I I found that I was more comfortable with my creativity as I got older, and I got more comfortable saying, I made that and I like it. If you don't like it, that's fine. No, yeah. Hey, listen, we've all either been by ourselves or with our, you know, yeah, extreme nuclear family and a lot of time itself. Yeah. And I think for creatives, you either go insane, right? Or you start thinking and branching out and using it and yeah. Yeah. Well, this was another great conversation. I am excited to get this to our listeners and our viewers. And believe it or not, Mindy, we only have one more episode left in this season, then we've got a small little hiatus for season two. I mean, it's hard to believe almost 10 weeks have gone by. I know. Congratulations. Bravo. And yes, next week's episode. I'm really excited to have our guests to close it out. But we've done it kiddo. Yeah, congrats doing it. And thank you. Yes. been such a fun little journey. I'm so thankful we're still doing it. Oh, yeah. Just listeners and viewers and everything. So thank you to all those at home that are taking the time to listen to us and watch it. It really is. It comes from the bottom of our hearts. We really appreciate it and we love being able to do this with you guys. So we're looking forward to that. Season Two, hopefully season three, season four, etc, etc. Oh yeah. All right, well, we'll see everybody next week. Until then. Be safe, everybody.