DISCLAIMER:
The following output was transcribed from our audio recording.
Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
It is posted to aid in understanding the interview but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
Mindy Cohn 0:00
Hello there and welcome to Episode Three of Mondays with Mindy coming to you virtually with my as always co host co producer and co pilot Christian Brescia.
Christian Brescia 0:10
Hi everybody. Welcome back.
Mindy Cohn 0:11
today's conversation about being a creative is with one of my favorite writers and human beings Christian. With a wicked sense of humor and a wardrobe to match. She has become one of my dearest and most necessary New York touchstones. She's also part of a pair that I adore her amazing husband Harry. And with him they have their three kiddos, Satie, Fletch and Ivy. They are many times the starting points of her articles, books and TV shows. But what solidified our bond is how we grew up and the relationship she has with her parents. Ari and Coco Koppelman, which is so similar to my own, that we have deemed ourselves sisters in arms and kindred spirits.
Guys and Dolls we are about to have a proper gab with the incredible Jill Kargman. Jill is a prolific writer. An author and actress based in New York City, her 2007 book, a spoof and commentary on upper east siders, of which she is one momzillas was adapted into them sensational Bravo television show odd my out which ran for four seasons from 2014 to 2017. A Yale graduate Jill has written 10 books along with momzillas include wolves in chic clothing, the ex Mrs. hedge fund, arm candy and my recent favorite sprinkle glitter on my grave. Her articles have appeared in Vogue, Harper's Bazaar Town and Country Teen Vogue and a slew of others here and as we like to say, across the pond, her latest creation and and incarnation in writing and currently vlogging the satirical character Danielle, that's Danielle with a Z. Vogue recently wrote an article entitled "Danielle the quarantine comedy character we all needed." She is constantly and voraciously creating and making me and all the people around her laugh and laugh hard! Christian –– I can't wait to start today's conversation with my beloved Jill Kargman.
Christian Brescia 2:09
Ladies and gentlemen, we want to welcome to the show Jill Kargman. Welcome. Welcome.
Jill Kargman 2:14
Thank you guys.
Mindy Cohn 2:15
Hi. Lovely!
Jill Kargman 2:15
Thrilled to be here. Thank you and thank you for this state of the art old school microphone. It's like from bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum.
Christian Brescia 2:24
A little nostalgic
Mindy Cohn 2:25
Mr Sandman. I love it.
We start each episode
Jill Kargman 2:32
SECREEETSSS...I've seen the quaaludes one. The Jonathan Adler, quaaludes box
Mindy Cohn 2:39
you know, representative my Johnny,
Christian Brescia 2:40
and they're all amazing.
Mindy Cohn 2:42
They're all amazing. But ummm Christian and I came up with 20 questions. I randomly pick five and we just start so answer to your best and then we just kind of do a deep dive in. Okay, great. And I thought this was a nice icebreaker.
Jill Kargman 2:55
Yeah, I'm an open book. So
Mindy Cohn 2:58
So What assumption do people make about you that are wrong?
Jill Kargman 3:05
I think people make the assumption that because I live on the Upper East Side that I'm sort of just not attuned to what's going on the rest of the world. There's that whole like, coastal elite aspect of thinking that I don't have my ear to the ground. And it's not true. A lot of people on the Upper East Side are more conservative, but I'm a Democrat. I always have been. Everyone in my neighborhood was in the protests last night.
Christian Brescia 3:30
Nice!
Jill Kargman 3:31
People, I got a lot of messages saying, Wow, I'm shocked. The Upper East Side is so woke. But they shouldn't be. It's still New York City.
Mindy Cohn 3:40
Yeah, pretty much
Jill Kargman 3:42
for some of them. But they're not in the city. They're all like jetted out to the Cramptons. You know? Yeah. Right.
Mindy Cohn 3:47
And we don't talk to them. But anyway, I don't
Jill Kargman 3:49
Yeah, I have no trouble. I know of some and they are not here.
Christian Brescia 3:55
Thankfully.
Mindy Cohn 3:57
I think we're talking about a couple of the same people. Yes. Okay, when was the last time you cried?
Jill Kargman 4:04
I cried watching the memorial service of George Floyd. They had showed a clip of his best friend, just before the service with the daughter, Gigi Lloyd saying my daddy changed the world. And I just started crying. Yeah, she's six years old and won't have her dad. So that was today. Yeah, generally, I feel like I cried a lot when I was younger. There was just like more uncertainty in my life. And now I have three kids, I try to really be strong for them. But I think also being vulnerable is strength. And I want them to know that I cry in front of the TV when I see the news. But really mostly they see outrage for me screaming at the mango Mussolini. That is hogging my TV.
Mindy Cohn 4:47
Yes. Oh, gosh. Soon. We pray Soon. Soon. Okay, this is interesting. Uh, can you cook What is your favorite dish to make and if you Don't cook. What is your favorite dish to consume?
Jill Kargman 5:03
I do not cook I make lunch type foods like for my kids, I'll make a grilled cheese or the good turkey sandwich. I put it in this Panini press or I do salads, things like that, but I am not a cook. My favorite thing to consume is actually based on the LA dish. The john and vinnies rigatoni a la vodka, spicy vodka sauce. It's my favorite thing and haunts my dreams. Every time I'm in, I'm in LA, I go twice, once in Brentwood, and once in Fairfax, and I've tried to replicate it to no avail. It's never quite as good. But my daughters are really really good cooks and love that dish as well. So they have made it and it's very good, but it's not the same. But yes, that is my favorite kind of dish.
Christian Brescia 5:48
That's a good dish too. I've had it myself many times.
Mindy Cohn 5:51
Yeah. kind of amazing. Who is your this will be hard for you. I know it. Who is your favorite relative and why?
Jill Kargman 6:00
That is hard. Yeah, Mom and Dad are tied. I can't choose it's like too much. I I'm so happy they're now back here. I don't know if I told you that Mindy because we were talking when they were in Palm Springs and it was 110 degrees. My mom went to the supermarket and it was like getting in an oven in the car. And she was so you know, marooned because they didn't feel like it was safe to fly. But they're now back
Mindy Cohn 6:27
You were talking about their concerns of flying, how was their flight?
Jill Kargman 6:31
It was fine. It was 60% full. So social distancing thing still wasn't really possible on JetBlue. And they, you know, they tried, but it's still that circulated air. They wore the masks. They're back in New York, and they're great. They're great. They're fine. I was really worried. My dad is a trooper, he's 82. He's older than my mom. So I really wanted him to be, you know, healthy and well and he's sort of immune compromised. So Feel like everything's okay now. So luckily they're back. But I would say I everything I am is because my parents, their values, their sense of humor. I owe it all to them. I just don't know what I do without them and I so many people are burying their parents right now. Not just from Coronavirus, but just I'm 45 like people are losing their parents. And I just try to frame it in how lucky I am that I have them and just constantly check on them. And you know, I'm I pretty much talk to them seven days a week without fail.
Mindy Cohn 7:32
Yeah, well, and I was talking to Christian about that. That was kind of our first real instant Bond was our relation, our shared relationship with our parents, which most of my friends do not have.
Jill Kargman 7:44
Most people don't. I mean, they'll send a Mother's Day card or check in on Sundays, but it's not the same pull, right?
Mindy Cohn 7:50
Yeah. Yeah. And lastly... oh this is so good for you. What do you splurge on?
Jill Kargman 7:59
I would say trips we have splurged with our kids I really think that travel it's a there are different theories about it. And I know people who have definitely said things like, well it's over in 10 days or something and you could buy jewelry or you could buy something that you have forever and I do understand that but...
Mindy Cohn 8:19
I do not.
Jill Kargman 8:20
I feel like we're all gonna be dead in 60 years and you can't take the or less fewer can't take that ring with you but you have the memories while you have them. And for a mom as a mom, I feel like it's part of my kids education and one way hundred percent that I can like specifically share with you that it has changed our spring is that five weeks before the first COVID-19 death we were standing in Anne Frank's bedroom. So my three kids they complain like they're definitely like complainers if they don't get they have not complained once during this pandemic. They have not said one thing about shelter in place. And that is purely because we were in Amsterdam and and I swear to you guys, that trip completely changed their behavior during the lockdown, she would have been whining, they would have freaked, but like, she didn't have Netflix and seamless, okay.
Christian Brescia 9:17
She had a closet!
Jill Kargman 9:18
She had a closet with strangers. And oh, by the way, if you go outside, you're murdered. So they have not kvetched once and that I can attribute it specifically to the trip because there have been times in our past where I've, you know, when they were little, and they would waste food and I would say like children in Africa, you know, I like turned into my parents. And they just didn't care when I said that it didn't have the same thing. Then we went to Zimbabwe, and Zambia and so all these villages and these kids, and then they got it so you know you can show pictures. You can try to verbalize it. It's just not the same as being there and actually inhabiting that space. So I will never stop spending on travel once the bands are lifted and we don't all die
Mindy Cohn 9:59
Ditto! But I also love that they as I did with my parents because my parents took us everywhere even when they couldn't afford air travel we got in the car and did road trips. They appreciate the life that you and Harry have created for them and given them and to me there's no better foundation. Anyway, I just know they're gonna kvell about you in the future in regard to that.
Jill Kargman 10:19
Well, I feel like the one thing I try to temper is that with school a lot of people at Christmas they say to each other the moms too. They'll say Where are you going for Christmas? Where are you going for spring break? And I said never asked that question. It's a rude question. Not everyone can travel just don't say it's you can say what are you up to but just like Be mindful that not everyone can do that or they just have you know people have different priorities some people I don't have a second home some people want to save up for that. Like I would rather just have one place and then see the rest of the world be my home. Yeah, that will always be my splurge.
Christian Brescia 10:52
Same
Mindy Cohn 10:53
love it. Alright, so diving into kind of the reason that Christian I started this podcast is we realized like what I was We were missing in this time of COVID was connection with other creatives I get very easily inspired. And I realized how necessary it is for me in my creative process. So I just asked each person that we get to have a conversation with what is your creative process as you define it, and just your trajectory of being a creative in your little life so far.
Jill Kargman 11:24
I feel like normally i a lot of creative people really think of themselves as artists, and I don't I, I tend to have a work ethic that's like a little oscillating, but it's a sort of sloth like and then it My ambition comes in fits and starts. So some people they're like, I'm an artist, and I have a process and it's a marathon. I'm not like that. I'm a sprinter. So I'll have like kind of a burst of creativity and work ethic and then I lay fallow for a while, which for me, is necessary to kind of sprout the next idea So I wish I could, you know, flip a switch in my BLEEP, and be like, I'm gonna BLEEP out six chapters of some great book. But um, that's right now, especially as a mom during the pandemic, and like with the household and all that stuff, I feel like it's harder for me even though my kids are older and I'm so lucky. I don't have toddlers and Huggies to change BLEEP to wipe I'm in such an easier phase of life. Those years were really really hard for me without a global pandemic with like lockdown. So I probably could, I probably could start a book or a screenplay or something. I just don't really have it in me right now. I feel like I can do little things. So I've done I'm just finished an article for instyle for the August issue, and I did an essay for an anthology that's coming out in October and I kind of like that sort of 800 word. Count. I'm not really in it. I'm sure you guys as creative people saw the meme going around at the beginning of COVID-19 lockdown saying Shakespeare wrote King Lear and quarantine everyone sent it to me. I was like, BLEEP you I don't that's like way too much pressure. BLEEP you!
Mindy Cohn 13:09
I'm gonna live through it is what's what my goal is.
Jill Kargman 13:12
Yeah, exactly. I'm not gonna roll up my sleeves and crap out a magnum opus, because I have to stay home I it's like I do feel like you want to be you don't have to be the perfect Mother, you want to be a surviving mother and that's sort of how I feel like as a writer right now just survive it. You can you are shaping your perspective as it's happening. But um, you know, for me, I feel like that critical thing was the Anne Frank trip, but right before this, so yeah, I had perspective. I know a lot of people are so frustrated. And I totally get that. But I just think we have to feel so BLEEP lucky. You know?
Mindy Cohn 13:49
Absolutely. And that you say you're a sprinter. But I mean, you are truly one of the most prolific people that I know or it's in my life. I don't know if that's really complimenting you and really BLEEP on other friends, but you seem to always well involved in something.
Jill Kargman 14:05
I feel like I'm always busy, but usually it's like talking to friends like you or my parents or being with my kids or something like that. I'm not necessarily my output isn't what it could be. But I feel like I I some part of having children I think, for me at least was I lost a lot of myself like, I it was worth it and I'm obsessed with my kids, but I kind of became a little bit diluted as a young mother. And then as they grew up, and I have that connection with them connection with my friends, all of those people kind of get you back to the balsamic reduction of yourself. So I actually think I'm now more in my prime as a writer than I was because I there's just more of you to have and your your that that reduction comes in where there's more solidity to your observations, your point of view, everything is crystalized.
Mindy Cohn 15:00
Yes, well jumping I mean to like the current creative that you are. Have not only you're not only at habit, but obviously right and you've been doing these vlogs Jill it's been it's been it's been life giving to me, Danielle Danielle with a z. No, I'm a little obsessed with her. Danielle, Danielle, Danielle. I can't even Yeah,
Jill Kargman 15:22
like she would call you Mindee and there would be M-I-N-Z-Z-Y.
Mindy Cohn 15:30
Minzy. I mean, it's like my aunt Arlene. Who seriously would say Mindy, Mindy come over. Exactly.
Jill Kargman 15:40
Yeah, Arlene, I love her.
So Danielle was um, she's an old friend of mine. She was in my play that I did at Williamstown Theatre Festival that i three years ago. I did a show there that was kind of a cabaret of heavy metal songs from the 80s re appropriated as a middle aged woman. It was called Stairway to cabaret. And I sang Motley Crue and Metallica,
Mindy Cohn 16:07
I have to interrupt you and let people know who aren't seeing us some will, but some won't. Is that Jill also is, I mean, how do you describe your fashion sense because I don't want to name it and claim it. I think I know what you'll say.
Jill Kargman 16:21
Oh, actually, my mom named it and claimed it. It's Sicilian widow.
She said you always dress like a Sicilian widow. You know, it's one of those like, Would it kill you to have some color? But um, yeah, I've been sort of told that I'm like Wednesday Adams grown up, but I don't wear pigtails because I don't like adult pigtails. But when I was younger, I look like Wednesday.
Mindy Cohn 16:46
It's the high fashion version as well. Like, lest, lest. You all be fooled out there. Okay. Jill Kargman. Turns out like nobody's business ... having said that...
Jill Kargman 16:58
I know. I was actually I'm gonna crack out one of my harnesses for you
today, but I know that it for the YouTube viewers, it's kind of cut off at my head. I feel like I've always been drawn aesthetically not just with fashion to things that are romantic and violent at the same time. So like I love a long flowy dress with a black leather harness and buckles over it. I just I love leather and lace. I love that juxtaposition in art in everything. So yeah,
Mindy Cohn 17:26
Well, you were well my darling.
Anyway, back to Danielle.
Jill Kargman 17:29
Danielle was in that show. And that was one of the characters and then she was a character in the show that I had actually when I was pitching the show. I had lunch with you Mindy in LA for snobs which was a show pilot I sold the IFC, which is you know, gone the way of the dodo. Yeah. So I wanted to kind of keep that character alive. And I did it because a friend of mine said people are really depressed. She was having a really hard time and said like, this is such a dark time. Why don't you make like funny little videos, you know to make people laugh. So I literally BLEEP out as like a kind of a joke. I was almost just for my friends. And then it took on this weird life of its own and was people from like, all over the place thought that that was how I actually talk. They didn't know that. They weren't, they didn't know odd mom out. They hadn't read my book, you know, they thought that was actually me. So all these new followers came which is funny because I lost so many followers. I think right after odd mom out. Maybe it was between season two and three. When Trump was elected. I started posting all this BLEEP about him and I was hemorrhaging followers. I didn't realize so many odd my mouth fans were republicans but I lost like 75,000 followers, and people would write like BLEEP you he's good for Israel or whatever the BLEEP. And I just I didn't care. I was like, Good riddance and I want you BLEEP seeing my children. So I lost all these followers but they're like they're coming back. For like, the weirdest randomness thing that I just like, kind of invented, so now I feel...
Mindy Cohn 19:05
She's incredible.
Jill Kargman 19:06
I want to keep going through the core, because I feel like it's honestly, it's fun for me. And then a lot of doctors and nurses have written me and said, we've been in hell, we're crying in the hallways, and then we all watch it together. And I was just tearing up, I couldn't believe it. I was screenshotting for my mom. She was kavelling. But I said, Well, if it's if it's, you know, 58 seconds that can make them laugh, like, I'll totally do it, and comment on things. So it's been fun. I weirdly like doing it and maybe, you know, who knows, I feel like it's gonna be a year till anything else is happening, or at least tell there's a vaccine. So I may as well keep the creative work as long even if it's for one BLEEP minute. It's fine.
Mindy Cohn 19:51
Oh, no, please do so.
Jill Kargman 19:53
It's effortless like I just BLEEP it out. So it's not like it's work. It's not like it's work. It's just fun.
Christian Brescia 19:59
I was gonna ask is it Is it improv or are you like a little outline of things you want to tackle? or do you just go for it?
Jill Kargman 20:06
Um I just go for it I just the only thing that I thought like that was premeditated were answers to questions that people send me then I'll then I'll think of an answer and then say it but typically I just, I switch my Soul Cycle t shirt, and then I just go verbal diarrhea.
Mindy Cohn 20:23
I do have to say like the wardrobe pics are just spot on. Truly.
Jill Kargman 20:29
it's funny that you mentioned that because I actually don't go to soulcycle I quit because they are Trump fundraisers. So I quit. But my original the original founders, Julie and Elizabeth are friends of mine and when they still owned it before they sold it to the Knox Yeah, they sent me a whole bunch of shirts. And so I was gonna throw them out and I just saved them for like, you know, doing whatever around the house and I'm so glad I did. Because now I have all of Danielle's athleisure!
Mindy Cohn 21:01
Yes. And now her fabulous masks that she wears when you take her out for an outing.
Jill Kargman 21:06
Yes, exactly. I just got some for the kids.
Mindy Cohn 21:09
Oh my gosh, did you.
Jill Kargman 21:11
Yeah, Jared has three H's Jahhhrod and Natalay, your character from the facts of life, but it's spelled L-A-Y.
Mindy Cohn 21:25
Jill, I can't. I totally can't. Christian, give us a break?
Christian Brescia 21:30
This is amazing. But we'll, we'll take a little pause here. do just a little bit of business for our listeners and our viewers who are watching us to remind everyone that if you aren't already subscribed to our channels, head to MondaysWithMindy.com there's links to hook up with the podcast on every major podcast platform. There's a link to watch it on YouTube and subscribe on YouTube if you'd like we appreciate you giving a thumbs up if you like what you're seeing and hearing. If you have comments questions, leave them in the comment section below per usual if you head to MondaysWithMindy.com. We will also have a section featuring our Guests, Jill telling you a little bit more about her place where you can connect with her special character and purchase some of her books if you would like. So if you want more information you want to connect with her in a bigger way after the show, please go to MondaysWithMindy.com, and you'll find everything there.
Mindy Cohn 22:14
And now a word from our sponsor, and seeing as we don't have one yet, I've decided to take this opportunity to plug Jill's daily vlog on Instagram. She stars as Danielle a character originally developed from her show Snobs brought by IFC, but due to COVID and her executive leaving that well BLEEP, it's looking and should find a new home, immediately calling on all networks do the right thing. In the meantime, head to @jillkargman on Instagram and get your daily dose. You will be so glad you did.
Jill Kargman 22:48
Oh, that is such a nice shout out.
Mindy Cohn 22:52
You've never been a sponsor. You're officially now a sponsor. So back to it. What are your current interests and obsessions? Do you have any okay?
Jill Kargman 23:06
Yes, I have my current interests in obsessions revolve around my television. I know we're supposed to limit our children's screen time. But one thing that's been amazing for me is rewatching things that were inappropriate for my children when they came out now appropriate, so or maybe borderline but for example, Saddie is 17. And we just finished Game of Thrones together, which is like a huge thrill because it's all like cracking skulls and banging BLEEP and they were little kids. So when they would wake up or come in and it was on we'd be like, No, no, don't come in, you know, so watching it with her was huge. And then we just finished Peaky Blinders, which is my number one favorite show of all time...
Mindy Cohn 23:45
DITTO DITTO.
Jill Kargman 23:45
so I just finished that with her which was great. So we've been that's sort of been our main like, thrust of the COVID of Rona time is our television this Second thing is I've been Mindy, you and I have discussed this. But growing up in the 80s, I really, really remember when AIDS hit New York and how my parents lost so many friends and my the fear at that was floating around, and I just thought I wanted to reread, and the band played on by Randy Shilts, and I finished it last night. It's like 600 pages, I read it in four days. And it It's weird, because I've read it at different this is my third time reading it. And it's so relevant now, not just because of the pandemic, but the bigitory treat that we've seen this week, the police and just, um, it's really an amazing book for this exact moment. So I highly recommend it. And I actually have gone down this rabbit hole. I was reading PhD papers on it. And there were other sources of other books. There's sort of a version in England about this and I watched how to survive a plague again, and there's a book version so I'm just really Thinking about that time and seeing how the government stagnation and there was such an institutional sloth. And
Mindy Cohn 24:06
yes, on the federal level there was just...
Jill Kargman 25:10
Yes, on the federal level, that is very familiar and having seen Larry Kramer's play normal heart and being able to meet him a couple of times his death was really upsetting to me because I just feel like he inspired me so much to use his use your voice and speak up and even if people hate you for it, who the BLEEP cares? Yeah, the right thing.
Mindy Cohn 25:38
Yeah, it be angry. It's all right.
Jill Kargman 25:40
Yeah, I really. I feel like he inspired me more than probably, I mean, many other writers like he is really just to me so amazing. And the fact that he died during another incompetent Republican administration is just heartbreaking to me because he probably died angry raging at this as We all are but I guess you know it part of his personality was always a fighter he was there was that it's almost in a way appropriate because that was his whole world was having that kind of backbone and strident voice even if it was too noisy for some people, they just didn't get it. And in fact, his biggest critics as they lay dying, you know, they called him and said, You were right, like, keep fighting. I should have been louder because silence equals death. And I think that's exactly what was happening right now. In the fight after the murder of George Floyd. So I feel like it's a really good book. You guys should read it. It's my obsession. I it's my probably my top 10 books of all time.
Mindy Cohn 26:42
Wow. What's your favorite book of all time?
Christian Brescia 26:44
it's a tough list, no?
Jill Kargman 26:45
gosh, I have. I have so many. Yeah. Yeah. I'm obsessed with. I love I love Pat Conroy's books. I loved beach music. I love Daniel Silva novels. I love...
Mindy Cohn 26:59
Oh my gosh, you My father Jill!
Jill Kargman 27:01
I am so obsessed with them
Mindy Cohn 27:03
oh my god, he is too!
Unknown Speaker 27:04
I read 17 books in six months. I don't usually do that, like I went into a K hole. But I just love all that BLEEP. I just read a really great book. It's a biography of Edward Gorey, one of my favorite illustrators. It's called born to be born to be posthumous. And it is so amazing. I think it's my favorite biography I've ever read. What else I just read a really good novel. Nothing to see here. It's very funny. It's I feel like I've been reading more of this in the last two years than I got to. I used to read like a few books a year and I've just been tearing through because my kids are older. Like I used to not even have the energy to read a magazine. I would kind of watch The Daily Show and Jimmy Fallon and then pass out and now I read all the time. Well, now I really can because I have so much more time but I think it's Good I think writers have also put down the pen and read.
Mindy Cohn 28:03
yes and live! so I know you don't call yourself an artist and a creative but I call you one takes one to no one in my in my book. And that's the whole point too is that part of being a creative is experiencing right? movies, film paintings museums travel I mean it's all good info we need to like take as much as we output. Jill has there been a I don't want to say failure but I don't know another word, obstacle a bump in the road that you have learned the most from or that looking back, change the trajectory of your life, your career, whatever,
Jill Kargman 28:40
I've had so many That is crazy. I mean, I don't even know where to start like the rejections you know of shows of scripts. Now you know all of that and like putting time into something that never comes to fruition is incredibly frustrating, but I feel like when I watched the today show a lot and Savannah Guthrie was Doing before they when they thought the Olympics were going to happen this summer. They did like a sort of kickoff in January, which seems like ages ago, about like learning about Japan, and just doing sort of a cultural keyhole into into Tokyo where we were going to go. And they talked about this expression, which translates to get knocked down seven times get up eight and I kind of remember being like, that's great, because it just when you have anything...
Mindy Cohn 29:27
I might have a weep over that.
Jill Kargman 29:28
yeah, love it. It's just like everyone has failure. Everyone has that and it's what you do with it and you have to just get up, you can't wallow in it. If I have to name one specific one that changed my trajectory. I would say I got kind of let go from MTV, not it's what I wasn't fired because I wasn't an employee. I was a freelancer. And I sort of project to project but I wrote like 15 shows there. Yeah, yeah, I had a lot of shows there. And, like between 20 when I was 25 to 28 And then I had a baby I came in. What's weird is that all of my bosses were men. And they were all probably like 35 ish. And I was 28. So I was younger. But I think MTV in the 80s 90s Actually, it was it was after it was not the 90s. It was. I started in the late 90s, like 99. And then when I was pregnant in 2002, they thought that that was not cool. Like they, they saw my bump, and it didn't feel youthful, it didn't feel on brand. And they were like, you're having a kid and they never called me again. And...
Christian Brescia 30:34
WOW.
Jill Kargman 30:34
I just I couldn't No, I don't think that would happen. Now. I think the world has changed. But at the time, I remember being like, BLEEP you. You guys are older than me, but I think they thought I'd lost my edge and I came in with my big stomach. And it was weird because New York is the city of kind of we're rejuveniles. And it was really when like hipster Brooklyn was forming, and I just think they thought I had like cobwebs on my youth. And just didn't I don't know, they didn't want anything to do with me. So they never call me again. I had to kind of not use that as a crutch. That job even though it wasn't lucrative, I felt like I was really busy. So I started writing I wrote my first book and I wouldn't have probably done that. If they had kept calling through like the birth and having a baby and all that. No, I'm glad because I I had to like, divert my attention elsewhere.
Mindy Cohn 31:24
Well, so my cuz I don't know the books are so incredible and what, what makes you decide to write because a few of your books are also teen oriented. I don't know what it's like, what do you term them?
Unknown Speaker 31:37
Yeah, they're they're called young adult. I wrote with my my writer, I call them teen but they it's the category is called "YA" with finger quote.
Mindy Cohn 31:46
Yeah. Yes,
Unknown Speaker 31:48
I would say so. I wrote those with my old writing partner. And we had started writing together because we had a screenplay that we had co written and our agent said, well, it's not going to sell You know, I don't think this is it but she said her exact words were Betty bowling alley in Duluth, won't be interested in this New York Life, you know, no one between the Hollywood Bowl and Zabar's as they say. And I said I beg to differ look at look at them, you know, Sex in the City and the Nanny Diaries and she was like, Well, those were novels first it's apples and oranges. So I was like BLEEP, let's write it as a novel. So we we turn it into a novel. We had, you know, a bunch of novels but I actually learned you guys I shouldn't be writing novels. I'm way more into my nonfiction essays about my family my life just observations about people are happy about that. It's so much more me i think i was i was younger and I was kind of hiding behind characters to say things and I, I feel so much freer writing about real BLEEP like as me so the first book was called sometimes I feel like a nut. That was not even my idea. And editor reached out to me because she had read a few of my articles. And said, like, I want you to do a collection of essays, you know, like a memoir and I said memoir, you know, I'm 33, whatever it was, and I'm gonna write a memoir. And then I got stage three, cancer melanoma in my Vag and thigh. Yes. So I wrote an essay called tumor humor about the whole Odyssey. And I sent it to her too. I was like, Okay, I get it now. Like, I if I can write in this vein, I think I could cobble together a book for you. And I'm so glad I did. And that she had that faith in me because that really kind of to me, solidified my voice. Yeah, yeah. And being able to write us me. That's the only thing I would do now. Otherwise, I just would feel hooker ish. I've had opportunities to do fiction, and I just feel like if your heart's not in it, then I don't know. I would have felt like a little bit BLEEP.
Christian Brescia 33:49
Yeah, I see that.
Mindy Cohn 33:50
Well, I would like you to BLEEP yourself out a little because I'd like you back on television. But that's just selfish.
Jill Kargman 33:56
it's not BLEEP if it's the BLEEP that you want to do. You know? I mean, I would love to I would kill to be back on and have a show again. I mean, I don't know how. I don't know if people are psyched for like a middle aged woman. My story on with my odd mom out it was like really expensive, I think compared to what they were making with the reality shows. So who knows, maybe someone will tell it's funny. A lot of people ask about sexism and have I encountered sexism. I really haven't. I've just it's been more like that ageism thing, like
starting at 28, starting at 28 when I was pregnant, I think mom, the word mom seems kind of unsexy to some people, but I there's a whole it's what you make of it doesn't have to be like the JC Penney mom jeans with a tapestry vest.
Mindy Cohn 34:40
Right, right. Right. I thought that was the last character I was gonna play. So but thanks for that. What does your relationship with Harry do for you? I got to listen to the toast that you made for his birthday.
Jill Kargman 34:58
Oh, I was glad you were there.
Mindy Cohn 35:00
And that made me very happy. There is this thing and I think I know we're only on episode three but people understand I am just a terminal romantic and your relationship with Harry and and i i like practical romance meaning in real life, like your parents like my parents real relationship and you and Harry have one of those relationships and it's magical to be around and I adore you. And I really like him. I mean, I have love for Harry. Your an incredible, incredible couple but your relationship is quite special.
Jill Kargman 35:30
Thank you, Mindy. I am the luckiest BLEEP person first of all, it's when you said that about practical I was I want to show you my necklace. It's from Barney's may it rest.
It says love.
Mindy Cohn 35:43
Is that is that a Kathy Waterman?
Jill Kargman 35:45
Yeah, and it's great. It's your good eye girl. It's made out of thorns. And that's why I loved it. Everyone has loved necklaces that are made in script like the script with little diamonds. To me this is more emblematic of what love It's the thorny, the good and the bad. I will tell you when I met you, I was back in my honeymoon mode of my marriage. I had a really hard time when when I had three little kids under four. And I would say for about three years as much as I loved Harry, I felt so lonely just because I was up all night I was exhausted and I love my kids. It was worth it. But those were really hard years for me and I almost feel like I I relied on my parents. Oh, yeah, I felt I felt like when I met you, I was already like we had come out of it. And we always used to say to each other like, we got through that like it really was they call it Seven Year Itch but I also think it usually times with having young children
Mindy Cohn 36:45
I think it's also called intimacy building because if you don't go through things like that with someone and then you come out on the other side, I mean, the the deepening of that trust and love. I don't know, I feel like it comes back to fold.
Jill Kargman 36:58
Totally. That's exactly Right. So I feel like there's no one else that I think I could go through all of this with and he really is my best friend again. Whereas he wasn't. I feel like during those years, he wasn't truly my best friend. Like my best friend was Vanessa and my parents. But I think when I got married because my parents have kind of a traditional marriage, I felt like okay, Harry's gonna be my everything my whole world. And so then, you know, it doesn't that's not really realistic. Yeah, for any of us. So I just, I had other supplemental relationships that like reinforced my identity and feeling like okay, I can, I don't have to pour everything on him. I can go to other people, but I really feel lucky because he is just the best guy. And he talks me down like nothing bothers him. So I mean, of course, things bother him like, politically, socially, but he doesn't lose his cool whereas I flip out, and he just stays very calm. So he is a really good balance to me. I'm so lucky.
Mindy Cohn 38:06
I also love that he is your biggest fan. I mean that he's not only not threatened by your success, but he can't wait for the next one. I mean, it's it's a support and an encouragement that supersedes just having a partner. It's he's a real fan. I mean, I mean, he, I think he laughs harder at you than anybody else.
Jill Kargman 38:26
I know. He's a good audience. But he's like tech, you know, he's like geek chic, as I call him. He's a computer science major at Harvard and like, is very tech oriented. I don't actually fully get what he does. I mean, I sort of do, but I think it's good that we have such different jobs. I think it would maybe be harder otherwise. I don't know. A lot of people say that to me, but which leads me to believe people who do the same thing sometimes get like, competitive are threatened but we don't. We're in such different fields.
Mindy Cohn 38:56
I am salivating and waiting for my Harry. Just to say we've talked about that before and I I don't want Harry but I want my
Jill Kargman 39:04
yep yep coming down the pike I'm always have my binoculars I'm on husband's Safari for Mindy.
Mindy Cohn 39:09
Oh my god. I know. It's the first thing we talked about. Yeah. What's the kind of the first thing we talked about? It's like, and you are now going to find me a husband.
Jill Kargman 39:17
I'm good at that. Yeah. Now I've set up all these people. It's amazing.
Mindy Cohn 39:21
It's absolutely amazing.
Christian Brescia 39:23
Is that a hidden skill?
Jill Kargman 39:24
Yeah, you know, sometimes I don't know, Christian, like, I sort of feel like it's a shot in the dark. Like, you just never really know hit it off. But I feel like, if you don't try and just set them up, the worst thing that can happen is if they have like, BLEEP drink, who cares, right? Like you just get to meet people. But I think a lot of people could do it. It's just that I actually do it and say like, Hey, will you meet my friend or you know, Mindy's come to my dinner parties. I have like casual dinner parties all the time. And I'll just have both of them come and see them next to each other and see if they hit it off and now there's children. I have like all these little God children that we are here because I made their parents...
Mindy Cohn 40:01
It's the best. I retired myself I had you know, it's like always a never a bride always a bridesmaid. Never a mother always a godmother as you know my story. I mean, so it's like, I'm now I'm now stopping that it's now receiving time.
Jill Kargman 40:16
It is receiving time you've heard it.
Mindy Cohn 40:18
Yes. Thank you, Jill. I want to thank you. You are such a light in my life. You are so brilliant. I outside of Harry you're big and maybe your mom and dad your biggest fan.
Jill Kargman 40:29
Oh, Mindy. You're the best.
Mindy Cohn 40:31
I can't wait to see what you create next and it better I better have a part in it. It's all I gotta say.
Jill Kargman 40:35
Oh BLEEP yeah, are you kidding? I we would have so on on a set together
Mindy Cohn 40:40
and I would love you to be my boss
Jill Kargman 40:43
I love that whole idea of having like your pack of friends that you work with again and again. I just think it shows like the energy is more palpable. I love all those Christopher guest's movies. I don't know I love that whole squad mentality.
Mindy Cohn 40:57
I am coming eastbound soon and I will I will see you in person.
Jill Kargman 41:01
I can't wait to hug you post Rona!
Mindy Cohn 41:03
Yeah, yeah, Ditto. Oh god. And in the meantime, I will just be watching your your vlog. ever so religiously.
Jill Kargman 41:11
I'm here for you. And Christian.
Mindy Cohn 41:13
Thank you.
Christian Brescia 41:14
Thank you!
Jill Kargman 41:15
Stay strong.
Christian Brescia 41:16
Thank you Jill it was great having you. We'll talk to you soon.
All right, Mindy. That was another great show with our very special guest Jill Kargman hilarious to say the least
Mindy Cohn 41:24
hilarious and a very bleepy show!
Christian Brescia 41:26
That's correct. You know, you I think people can use their imagination to figure out they can read between the lines. So let's say that much.
And just real quickly want to say, again, to all of our guests, and all of our viewers and all of our listeners. Thank you very much for sticking with us. We appreciate you coming along on this journey with us.
Head to MondaysWithMindy.com for links to our guests information, where you can find her show her books, all that good stuff, as well as other information about us and our show. Hopefully you stick around, subscribe and stay with us.
I wanted to just end on the note saying that there's a lot of conversations going on right now throughout the world. And we're very thankful to be among them, and hope that our little conversations bring a little bit of light and happiness and inspiration into your day. So thanks for sticking with us. We look forward to seeing you next week. Bye, everybody.
